<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1410</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/29/99 2:25:50 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, November 29 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1410<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
Re Certifications<BR>
Re: Rule of man coin<BR>
Re: Rule of man coin<BR>
Re: Mini Review: Lost Keith Supplements<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Re:Rule of Man Coin<BR>
Inaniae sunt omnes divisa in partes sex ...<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
meteor strike mines<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Re: Barbarella<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Re: Inaniae sunt omnes divisa in partes sex ...<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:42:56<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
<BR>
At 11:48 AM 11/28/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>  ...you refer to the size and quality of potential quarters<BR>
>by "displacement tons" and type of Passage :)<BR>
<BR>
And this is as good a time as any to mention the Silly Era's "You Might Be<BR>
A Traveller Fanatic If...." page<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/redneck.html<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:33:49 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Certifications<BR>
<BR>
>>And, don't you think this sort of thing is *better* than GURPS<BR>
>>templates?  Don't give me 90% of a character, just the minimum<BR>
>>skills the PC needs for various positions and I'll mix and match to<BR>
>>produce the PC I want.<BR>
><BR>
>I missed the start of this thread, but if you look at GURPS Traveller: Far<BR>
>Trader, pp. 82-85, you'll find just such a system spelled out for GT, at<BR>
>least for merchant characters. Templates are mostly designed for newbies,<BR>
>because the character generation system for GURPS is so detailed and<BR>
>baroque. I had to implement a certification system to show what the minimum<BR>
>qualifications for various positions would be. GT: Starships will repeat<BR>
>and expand this system somewhat -- I am open to suggestions on<BR>
>qualifications I need to add (Able Spacehand is already on that list).<BR>
<BR>
Where it needs to be in GT is NOT the templates, but the Jobs table.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:40:42 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Rule of man coin<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Latin is in the process of being changed now on the altar of <BR>
PCness. At my undergrad school they tried to change from alumnus/alumna to <BR>
"Alums", but were shouted down by the cries of everyone who figured that <BR>
would make the university look illiterate. Now I am at a top 25 school, where <BR>
they want to look stupid, if it gets them one more minority awareness point. <BR>
I am sure Latin will continue to change over time, for these type and for <BR>
godd reasons.<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/28/99 4:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Disclaimer: I was one of the worst Latin students in my high school, but I<BR>
 make out the following:<BR>
 <BR>
 First, astrum, -i (second declension?) is "star," so the apparent dative or<BR>
 ablative "astribus," a third declension form is puzzling. I would expect<BR>
 something like "astro" or "astra."<BR>
 <BR>
 Next, the "amplois" may be from amplio, -are, "to make wide, increase," but<BR>
 the form seems wrong again. I would expect something like "ampliat." I think<BR>
 that the intended meaning falls along these lines.<BR>
 <BR>
 Does mean that in the canon universe that even Latin is different!?!? I can<BR>
 accept anti-gravity and FTL travel, but changing Latin? Isn't that asking<BR>
 just a bit too much?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:59:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Rule of man coin<BR>
<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com <GaryBartz@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, Latin is in the process of being changed now on the altar of<BR>
<BR>
>PCness. At my undergrad school they tried to change from<BR>
>alumnus/alumna to "Alums", but were shouted down by the cries of<BR>
>everyone who figured that would make the university look illiterate.<BR>
<BR>
Darn. I thought you'd have a better story than this one... something along<BR>
the lines of "Now I have to call salesmen salespeople" or something like<BR>
that. No, you're not seeing a pretty much dead and dusty language being<BR>
changed, you're seeing borrowed english words being changed, most likely for<BR>
brevity and simplicity. Since lots of folks already go around shortening the<BR>
word to "alum" anyway, it's not a real big deal.<BR>
<BR>
>Now I am at a top 25 school, where they want to look stupid, if it gets<BR>
>them one more minority awareness point. I am sure Latin will<BR>
>continue to change over time, for these type and for godd reasons.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Nah, I doubt the language is going to change... pronunciation might though.<BR>
I took three years of Latin and learned one set of rules for pronunciation,<BR>
but it seems that the rest of the world learned an entirely different set of<BR>
rules for pronunciation.<BR>
<BR>
That can be somewhat disorienting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:00:49 -0500<BR>
From: worj <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mini Review: Lost Keith Supplements<BR>
<BR>
At 06:44 PM 11/28/1999 -0600, Eris wrote:<BR>
>Wow!  I want to run a CT game, *right* now! <g><BR>
><BR>
>The long awaited collection of the Keith CT supplements came in a<BR>
>nice folio, with a big 'Keith Brothers "Lost Supplements Collection'<BR>
>sticker on the side.  Inside there are 8, 8.5x11 stapled books, and<BR>
>an envelope containing several small "goodies."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I can hardly wait for my copy to arrive!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
<BR>
Please note that my email address is:<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:30:48 -0600<BR>
From: Mark A Nordstrand <markn@visi.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
> Comments?<BR>
<BR>
My biggest problem with designing craft with Traveller computers<BR>
has been there doesn't seem to be any scaling effect.  It doesn't <BR>
seem right that a particular computer will operate the same whether<BR>
it's in a 1000 ton cruiser or a 100 ton scout.  Other than that,<BR>
I agree completely with your assesment of computers in Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
As for the WAG's on numbers, the first thing that stuck me was that<BR>
most of the storage numbers were in or near the thousands.  Could<BR>
the thousands be dropped off?<BR>
<BR>
Mark<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:47:03 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
On 11/28/99 at 10:30 PM,  Mark A Nordstrand <markn@visi.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Comments?<BR>
<BR>
>My biggest problem with designing craft with Traveller computers has<BR>
>been there doesn't seem to be any scaling effect.  It doesn't  seem<BR>
>right that a particular computer will operate the same whether it's<BR>
>in a 1000 ton cruiser or a 100 ton scout.  Other than that, I agree<BR>
>completely with your assesment of computers in Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I thought about that too.  I think there should be some sort<BR>
of size factor, but I'm not sure how to work it in.<BR>
<BR>
>As for the WAG's on numbers, the first thing that stuck me was that<BR>
>most of the storage numbers were in or near the thousands.  Could the<BR>
>thousands be dropped off?<BR>
<BR>
Possibly, the reason I did that was to give a low end range for<BR>
smaller programs that would run mostly on micros.  Wordprocesers,<BR>
spreadsheets, games, system utilities, communication utilities and<BR>
so on.  I might could drop from thousands to hundreds and have the<BR>
mid range programs in the hundreds and the low end programs in the<BR>
tens and single digits. I'll think about it.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:25:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re:Rule of Man Coin<BR>
<BR>
> From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
Let's take another crack at it:<BR>
 <BR>
> >"DOMINATUS HOMINIS SPLENDET SPLENDIDE AMPLOIS OUAM <BR>
> >GLORIAM ASTRIBUS"<BR>
> <BR>
> DOMINATUS:  noun, nominative case, rule or dominion<BR>
> HOMINIS:  noun, genetive case, of man or of mankind<BR>
> SPLENDET:  verb, third person singular, present<BR>
> indicative or possibly subjunctive; splendere<BR>
<BR>
splendere means "to shine"<BR>
<BR>
> SPLENDIDE:  adverb, splendidly<BR>
> AMPLOIS:  no idea<BR>
<BR>
I don't find any Latin words in Langenscheidt's that have "oi" or "ui"<BR>
following "ampl". Amplus is an adjective meaning "of large extent,<BR>
ample, spacious, roomy"; "strong, violent," "splendid, magnificent,<BR>
glorious, honorable," or "esteemed, distinguished, honored, ilustrious,<BR>
excellent, noble."  "Amplius" is a noun meaning "a greater amount; a<BR>
larger sum"<BR>
<BR>
> OUAM:  probably "quam", which<BR>
<BR>
Interrogative, "how much" or relative, "as much as"<BR>
<BR>
> GLORIAM: noun, accusative case, glory<BR>
> ASTRIBUS: noun, genetive plural, of the stars<BR>
<BR>
"The rule of man shines brightly to as great an extent as the glory of<BR>
the stars."<BR>
<BR>
We humans are modest, if nothing else.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:39:55 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Inaniae sunt omnes divisa in partes sex ...<BR>
<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1406<BR>
<BR>
"DOMINATUS HOMINIS SPLENDET SPLENDIDE AMPLOIS OUAM GLORIAM ASTRIBUS"<BR>
<BR>
> I always translated it along the lines of "The splendor of the Rule of Man <BR>
> outshines the glory of the stars." but Bill Keith came up with it.<BR>
<BR>
See my earlier message.  ("The Rule of Man shines brightly to as great<BR>
an extent as the glory of the stars.")<BR>
<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1407<BR>
> <BR>
> And before someone asks:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Res ipsa loquitur.   >><BR>
> <BR>
> The thing speaks for itself.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that's the usual mistranslation favored by the legal<BR>
profession.  "Ipsa", however, is not a reflexive object, but rather an a<BR>
nominative case pronoun in apposition with the main subject "res".  The<BR>
meaning is "The thing, itself, speaks."  (As a member of the<BR>
aforementioned profession, I am somewhat fond of these narrow<BR>
distinctions of meaning.)<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:00:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Earl Hampton" <earliii@neta.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
:<BR>
><BR>
> >> Comments?<BR>
><BR>
> >My biggest problem with designing craft with Traveller computers has<BR>
> >been there doesn't seem to be any scaling effect.  It doesn't  seem<BR>
> >right that a particular computer will operate the same whether it's<BR>
> >in a 1000 ton cruiser or a 100 ton scout.  Other than that, I agree<BR>
> >completely with your assesment of computers in Traveller.<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah, I thought about that too.  I think there should be some sort<BR>
> of size factor, but I'm not sure how to work it in.<BR>
<BR>
I've also thought about the computer scaling problem with traveller. The<BR>
only way I see to get around it, if you go with the programs, is to have to<BR>
have more programs on larger ships. The combat programs are the easiest to<BR>
do this with. If every gun or perhaps battery requires another program then<BR>
we now will need more computer. If you then consider the program feeds a<BR>
gunnery program must have we end up with even more computer needed. Of<BR>
course to do this you have to take a look at all the programs your planning<BR>
on having in the game because we find that each helps and hinders the other.<BR>
Can you have a target program that is of x level if the sensors are of x-1<BR>
or even if the maneuver program isn't giving enough significant digits for<BR>
that matter.<BR>
<BR>
The bottom line of course is that a small computer can run a very large ship<BR>
but not one that needs to do a lot of things. This means you can have a bulk<BR>
freighter that has a small crew but couldn't fight it's way out of a paper<BR>
bag.<BR>
<BR>
I know this isn't keeping with the tread but I think of ships in traveller<BR>
much like the Sailing ships of old. If we are looking at ships of the line,<BR>
they were way over manned, had more sail and shot than they could use, and<BR>
had tall masts and extra rigging but ran out of water quickly and spent a<BR>
considerable amount of time in port. For having this large mast their<BR>
effective horizon was further away, they had plenty of people to keep up<BR>
with many things going on at the same time and had the equipment to meet any<BR>
contingency. The small brig that was trying to make a profit however had<BR>
barely enough people to keep up with the weather and would took so much time<BR>
to come about that the guns would be useless even if they were manned. In a<BR>
battle type situation they were simple overloaded with all the tasks that<BR>
needed to be performed.<BR>
<BR>
Computers and manning levels in traveller should be the same way.<BR>
<BR>
Btw eris I like the programs<G><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:11:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Earl Hampton" <earliii@neta.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
Oops. I knew I'd forget something. How many objects can be tracked with one<BR>
sensor or one sensor program if you prefer.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:03:53 -0500<BR>
From: Joseph Coles <jcoles@nac.net><BR>
Subject: meteor strike mines<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:07:51 -0400<BR>
>From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
>Subject: Re: Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>        PS:  Stupid Canadian Trivia Fact -  The magificent nickel mines of<BR>
>Sudbury, Ontario, are actually an asteroid mine.  It looks like a<BR>
>nickel-rich minor slammed into the Canadian Sheild where Sudbury currently<BR>
>is a few hundred thousand or million years ago.  They've been mining the<BR>
>results for almost a century, I believe.<BR>
<BR>
The same sort of event seems to have occured in Franklin, New Jersey as<BR>
well. This little town in northern NJ is the only source on the planet for<BR>
several phosphorescent (sp?) minerals.  They are named after several of the<BR>
local towns: Franklinite, Ogdensburgite, and others which I can't remember<BR>
and are all found in a single "vein" that's oblong and roughly a mile long.<BR>
 The mine for these oddities is no longer active, but I can't remember if<BR>
it's played out or if there's no longer any commercial demand for the<BR>
products.  This is all from memory - I visited the place once, about 20<BR>
years ago.<BR>
Joseph Coles<BR>
jcoles@nac.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:40:17 -0800<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
>On 11/28/99 at 10:30 PM,  Mark A Nordstrand <markn@visi.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>> Comments?<BR>
><BR>
>>My biggest problem with designing craft with Traveller computers has<BR>
>>been there doesn't seem to be any scaling effect.  It doesn't  seem<BR>
>>right that a particular computer will operate the same whether it's<BR>
>>in a 1000 ton cruiser or a 100 ton scout.  Other than that, I agree<BR>
>>completely with your assesment of computers in Traveller.<BR>
><BR>
>Yeah, I thought about that too.  I think there should be some sort<BR>
>of size factor, but I'm not sure how to work it in.<BR>
><BR>
>>As for the WAG's on numbers, the first thing that stuck me was that<BR>
>>most of the storage numbers were in or near the thousands.  Could the<BR>
>>thousands be dropped off?<BR>
><BR>
>Possibly, the reason I did that was to give a low end range for<BR>
>smaller programs that would run mostly on micros.  Wordprocesers,<BR>
>spreadsheets, games, system utilities, communication utilities and<BR>
>so on.  I might could drop from thousands to hundreds and have the<BR>
>mid range programs in the hundreds and the low end programs in the<BR>
>tens and single digits. I'll think about it.<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
One thing to consider, the larger the ship, the larger the I/O<BR>
requirements.  The greater the I/O requirements, the greater the storage<BR>
requirements.  Ponder this, for the equivalent of a PC the deciding factor<BR>
is the user interface, well that and making it big enough that you don't<BR>
easily loose it.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand a computer dealing with ships sensors is going to have to<BR>
have some pretty fancy interfacing hardware, and it will deal with all<BR>
kinds of inputs.<BR>
<BR>
Same thing with the computer that deals with the Jump drive.  In fact for<BR>
the jump drive you may have individual inputs from points all over the jump<BR>
grid.  This could be a good reason for increased size and expense with<BR>
larger vehicles.  Each one of those sensors costs money, each one requires<BR>
an interface to the computer.  It adds up.<BR>
<BR>
Then there is environmentals, failover systems, etc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Think about the differences between Microcomputer, and<BR>
Minicomputer/Mainframes.  As an example I'm typing this on a G4 PowerMac,<BR>
by todays standards it's a very powerful system, however, I've got 3 PCI<BR>
slots, and one AGP slot.  Though I can hang a lot of stuff off it with<BR>
Firewire and USB, I can add SCSI and hang still more devices off of it.<BR>
But, a microcomputer really isn't that great and handling massive I/O<BR>
loads.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand off to my left is a PDP-11/73 Minicomputer, by today's<BR>
standards it's painfully slow, but it's got a 12 slot backplane, and I<BR>
could chain other backplanes to it in order to get more slots.  I can stick<BR>
an unbelievable range of I/O cards in it, that just aren't possible on a<BR>
Microcomputer.  As an example I could easily hang a dozen terminals on the<BR>
PDP-11 without any difficulty.  Or I could have a bunch of Analog to<BR>
Digital cards in it, and have it monitoring machinary.  I could have a<BR>
fully functional system with just three cards, but I could have a total of<BR>
20 cards in just this chassis.  The Mac is the size of a normal tower PC,<BR>
the PDP-11 the is size of a short filing cabinet, it makes a good endtable.<BR>
<BR>
The real difference between Micro's, Mini's and Mainframes isn't the speed,<BR>
it's the I/O and storage capabilities.  You want something built for speed,<BR>
you go with a system built specifically for speed.  I think by a certain<BR>
tech level most all processors will pretty much be the same speed, speed<BR>
differences will be based on the number of processors (we're already<BR>
starting to see this).<BR>
<BR>
Also, sometimes you don't want the greatest level of miniturization<BR>
possible.  Larger is easier to work on, and it might be more reliable.  The<BR>
smaller a device, the harder to repair, and the more specialized the<BR>
equipment needed to repair it.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and all those sensors hooked up to the computers generate logs.<BR>
Someone cycles an airlock, it's logged, someone turns on the lights in a<BR>
compartment, it's logged.  The larger the ship, the more you log.  The more<BR>
you log, the greater the storage requirements.  You might want redundant<BR>
storage in different parts of the ship on in case something happens to one<BR>
part of the ship.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and as for software costs.  Standard pricing schemes once you get out<BR>
of PC class computing seems to be the greater the size of the system, the<BR>
more it costs.  For example the software to backup said PC might cost $150,<BR>
but the *exact* same software being used to backup a 1.5TB fileserver migth<BR>
cost<BR>
$30,000.  Specialized software such as video editing software is likely to<BR>
cost $1000, yet you can get a Encyclopedia for $35.  There is no reason to<BR>
believe this won't continue on into the far future.<BR>
<BR>
Just some random semi-disorganized thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
				Zane<BR>
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |<BR>
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |<BR>
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |<BR>
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |<BR>
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:47:21 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Barbarella<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Frank said:<BR>
>Add in that film that Sean Connery is embarrassed by, and a few others, and<BR>
>we have quite a nice little line in "tacky" SF.<BR>
<BR>
Zardoz, by John Boorman.<BR>
<BR>
I even have the book, which explains things a bit better.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:48:14 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
On 11/28/99 at 11:11 PM,  "Earl Hampton" <earliii@neta.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Oops. I knew I'd forget something. How many objects can be tracked<BR>
>with one sensor or one sensor program if you prefer.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, good point!  And one I hadn't considered.  So, you could have<BR>
Sensor 1, 2, 3 etc, representing the processing power needed to<BR>
track multiple objects.  You could also have multiple programs for<BR>
things, it takes Target to use turret weapons *and* Launch to<BR>
control missiles or sand, and Gunner Interact to add the Gunner's<BR>
skill to the task rolls.  You could have Sensor to *use* the sensors<BR>
and Track 1, 2, to n to allow 1, 2..n objects to be tracked with<BR>
those sensors.<BR>
<BR>
It also might be possible to have a multiplier for some of the<BR>
programs based on the size of the ship.  Say, 50 x Size_Mod, so a<BR>
Size 1 vessel needs a 50 CPU program, a Size 5 vessel needs a 250<BR>
CPU version and a Size 9 vessel needs a 450 CPU version. <BR>
<BR>
...and thanks for the kind words, Earl.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:22:49 -0600<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
Whoever mentioned E.C.Tubb's Dumarest Saga want to give the names of<BR>
these books.  I started looking for them and found Symbol of Terra,<BR>
Dumarest of Terra #30 which only lists 19 books in the series.  How many<BR>
are there and what is the order they are to be read in????<BR>
<BR>
Charles<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:48:57 -0800<BR>
From: Jerry Paul Sanders <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
At 01:22 AM 11/29/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Whoever mentioned E.C.Tubb's Dumarest Saga want to give the names of<BR>
>these books.  I started looking for them and found Symbol of Terra,<BR>
>Dumarest of Terra #30 which only lists 19 books in the series.  How many<BR>
>are there and what is the order they are to be read in????<BR>
><BR>
>Charles<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
There are 32 novels in the Dumarest of Terra series and they should be read<BR>
in the following order:<BR>
<BR>
The Winds of Gath<BR>
Derai<BR>
Toyman<BR>
Kalin<BR>
The Jester at Scar<BR>
Lallia<BR>
Technos<BR>
Veruchia<BR>
Mayenne<BR>
Jondelle<BR>
Zenya<BR>
Eloise<BR>
Eye of the Zodiac<BR>
Jack of Swords<BR>
Spectrum of a Forgotten Sun<BR>
Haven of Darkness<BR>
Prison of Night<BR>
Incident on Ath<BR>
Quillian Sector<BR>
Web of Sand<BR>
Iduna's Universe<BR>
The Terra Data<BR>
World of Promise<BR>
Nectar of Heaven<BR>
The Terridae<BR>
The Coming Event<BR>
Earth is Heaven<BR>
Melome<BR>
Angado<BR>
Symbol of Terra<BR>
The Temple of Truth<BR>
The Return<BR>
<BR>
Tubb originally intended for five other novels to be set on Earth after The<BR>
Return( although only recently published in the U.S., The Return was<BR>
written over a decade ago). Due to his advanced age, it is unlikely that<BR>
they will ever be written. I am currently hammering out a deal with Tubb's<BR>
agent to commission Tubb to write a 12,000 word novella set on Earth as a<BR>
follow up to "The Return" - keep your fingers crossed. Hopefully, if<BR>
written, this novella will at least tie up several of the loose ends that<BR>
still remain after Dumarest finds Earth at the end of The Return. <BR>
<BR>
Cordially,<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:04:05 -0800<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
>On 11/28/99 at 11:11 PM,  "Earl Hampton" <earliii@neta.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>Oops. I knew I'd forget something. How many objects can be tracked<BR>
>>with one sensor or one sensor program if you prefer.<BR>
><BR>
>Ah, good point!  And one I hadn't considered.  So, you could have<BR>
>Sensor 1, 2, 3 etc, representing the processing power needed to<BR>
>track multiple objects.  You could also have multiple programs for<BR>
>things, it takes Target to use turret weapons *and* Launch to<BR>
>control missiles or sand, and Gunner Interact to add the Gunner's<BR>
>skill to the task rolls.  You could have Sensor to *use* the sensors<BR>
>and Track 1, 2, to n to allow 1, 2..n objects to be tracked with<BR>
>those sensors.<BR>
><BR>
>It also might be possible to have a multiplier for some of the<BR>
>programs based on the size of the ship.  Say, 50 x Size_Mod, so a<BR>
>Size 1 vessel needs a 50 CPU program, a Size 5 vessel needs a 250<BR>
>CPU version and a Size 9 vessel needs a 450 CPU version.<BR>
><BR>
>...and thanks for the kind words, Earl.<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, just took another look at your list.  You need to include databases<BR>
in it.  When the sensors pickup a target, the you'll need to have databases<BR>
for identifying things about it.  For example, on the Solomani Rim, you<BR>
wouldn't need the Zhodani Ships Database, but you might want it if you were<BR>
bouncing around behind the claw.  Other databases would included things<BR>
such as known weapons systems and sensors.<BR>
<BR>
For example, you've jumped into a system near the Zhodani boarder.  Your<BR>
sensor operator picks up a incoming track.  The computers would start<BR>
searching your Ships recognition databases.  Then if the operator clicks on<BR>
that track, the computer will display its best guess (or possibly guesses<BR>
(should be software selectable)).  Then the operator decides it's hostile<BR>
and queries about weapons systems, based on the data in the Ship<BR>
recognition database the computer pops up a list of suspected weapons<BR>
systems, and the operator can click on one of them and the computer will<BR>
pull it up from the weapons database.  All the while the computer is<BR>
processing sensor output, trying to get a better idea of what the track is,<BR>
and how it's configured, as time progresses any variances from the norm<BR>
would be displayed in a different colour.<BR>
<BR>
Since this kind of tracking would suck up the CPU cycles, you'd want to<BR>
also designate a target as display only, don't analyze.  On friendly ships<BR>
you'd get most of this info from the transponder signals.<BR>
<BR>
Software and databases would have a minimum of two quality levels, civilian<BR>
and military, and in reality, would probably have more.  For example, there<BR>
might be a level above military that includes data not normally available<BR>
to the military (spy ships of some sort might fall into this catagory).<BR>
<BR>
Now here is a scarry thought, because all this is computer controlled the<BR>
Imperium might very well be able to arrange for certain classes of ships to<BR>
remain undetected simply by having the software not display the tracks!<BR>
<BR>
BTW, what was the purpose of your list?<BR>
<BR>
					Zane<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |<BR>
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |<BR>
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |<BR>
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |<BR>
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:45:00 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Inaniae sunt omnes divisa in partes sex ...<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net> wrote:<BR>
>> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
>> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1406<BR>
><BR>
>"DOMINATUS HOMINIS SPLENDET SPLENDIDE AMPLOIS OUAM GLORIAM ASTRIBUS"<BR>
><BR>
>> I always translated it along the lines of "The splendor of the Rule of Man <BR>
>> outshines the glory of the stars." but Bill Keith came up with it.<BR>
><BR>
>See my earlier message.  ("The Rule of Man shines brightly to as great<BR>
>an extent as the glory of the stars.")<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't that become<BR>
<BR>
	"The Rule of Man shines as brightly as the glory of the stars."<BR>
<BR>
once the "poetic English" filters are in place? :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:18:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
On 28 Nov 99, at 22:30, Mark A Nordstrand wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Comments?<BR>
> <BR>
> My biggest problem with designing craft with Traveller computers<BR>
> has been there doesn't seem to be any scaling effect.  It doesn't <BR>
> seem right that a particular computer will operate the same whether<BR>
> it's in a 1000 ton cruiser or a 100 ton scout.  Other than that,<BR>
> I agree completely with your assesment of computers in Traveller.<BR>
> <BR>
> As for the WAG's on numbers, the first thing that stuck me was that<BR>
> most of the storage numbers were in or near the thousands.  Could<BR>
> the thousands be dropped off?<BR>
<BR>
I don't have much problem with that. IMO the controls (in FF&S, MT, <BR>
etc), which are volume dependent, represent the parts of the computer <BR>
system that vary in size with the size of the ship. I see no real need <BR>
to make the CPU and memory change in size with increasing ship size. <BR>
However maybe it should cost more (for extra HD space, more expensive <BR>
software, etc).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1410<BR>
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